Halime Taştan Daşbilek: The $400,000 threshold is a very reasonable amount. At the moment, you are doing a profitable investment because in spite of the situation of the Turkish lira currency situation and other aspect, real estate investment is still one of the most profitable investments, and has one of the best return on investment option for any investor. Plus, you are getting a Turkish passport within a very short period of time, which gives you a lot of advantages as well along with your investment.

Salman Siddiqui:  Welcome to the Investment Immigration podcast by Uglobal.com, with weekly in-depth interviews with the world's leading investment immigration professionals. Welcome to another episode of the Investment Immigration podcast. I'm your host, Salman Siddiqui from Berlin. So today we are going to focus on the program in Turkey. Now in Turkey, there have been a lot of developments recently, especially this year. The country recently had its elections in May, and in those elections the president remains the same, but they have a whole new government and ministers there. So what is going to be the impact of that on the investment immigration climate there? Have things changed or will the policy remain the same? These are the kinds of questions we are going to cover in this episode. And we are also going to touch on the topic of the impact of the recent earthquake in Turkey, which was a massive earthquake, and we saw a lot of people losing their homes in that tragedy. But we also know that there is chaos and there is tragedy. There are also opportunities for investments. And we're going to talk about what this this mean for the foreign investors. Are there any opportunities there for them to invest? Also, we are going to cover about the real estate options in Turkey. There have been some changes before. One could make investments using the local Turkish lira currency, but now you have to use the foreign currency, the dollar. So we're going to talk about that. That doesn't make sense for foreign investors to bring their dollars in the country and invest using dollars. Or is this an opportunity for not all investors, or is it an opportunity for investors who come from the Middle East, mainly who are looking for the E2 visa route? So to talk all of this about all of these topics, I have a very special guest with me. Her name is Halime Taştan Daşbilek. She's the founder of the law firm Daşbilek & Associates. The law firm has its main offices in Istanbul and also operates from its offices in India. Welcome to the show, Halime.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  Thank you very much, Salman, for an amazing introduction and I'm already looking forward to discuss all these interesting topics with you. Thank you very much for this.

Salman Siddiqui:  Thank you so much. So let's talk about the main issue that interests me personally because I want to know the changes which are expected in the country's program after the elections in Turkey. So do you think the minimum investment threshold, for example, would be increased now that a new government is in place? What changes are we to expect to start with?

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  You know, the elections happen in May in 2023, and it was kind of considered as the election of the century for Turkey. So it was very critical. So literally the whole country and whole system was on hold. And yes, there are changes, but as you said, the president is still same. So the policies which the government was following for years are the same. So the attraction towards the investments, foreign investments is still one of the priorities of the new government. Based on that, there will be a lot of changes. Meanwhile, when this process was going on, as you know, there were a lot of changes also happened before the elections. So considering that we can look slightly into the history of the Turkish program to understand these changes. As you know, in 2018, the Turkish investment program was introduced with the minimum investment of $1 million, it got a lot of attention once the minimum investment limit come down to $250,000. And there was a huge demand. And at the same time, real estate market is one of the options that are most demanded in this program. Real estate market also gets affected some way in a good and in some cases in a bad way.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  So what happened is to match with the country government's goals and the policies, with the fluctuations happening in economy, recent the minimum investment in the Turkish program was increased from $250,000 to $400,000. So in fact, these changes are all going parallel with the the interest towards Turkey. But you know, the actual reasons what I have to say, the minimum investment threshold here, the minimum investment limit is not the only consideration when people are considering Turkey. So there are many clients of us who invested in real estate industry of Turkey due to it being a highly profitable investment. At the same time, along with the passport, a strong passport like Turkish passport as an advantage comes to the investor. These changes are not affecting the investor’s decisions if they decide to choose Turkey, because there are so many clients who make a lot of investment, which is four times or three times higher than the actual minimum investment. So there are other elements coming into the picture when it comes to the changes related to the citizenship program. One of the changes, what I predict for the coming future with the new government , would focus more on the regulations, more on the process than the minimum investment amount to be increased.

Salman Siddiqui:  Right. Also I want to understand from you, what is the investment immigration climate now in Turkey? You just mentioned that the government is still keen on foreign investors. So could you elaborate a little bit more on that point?

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  The main point here, what we have to segregate is the immigration and immigrants profile. Turkey, you know, which is strategic location between Europe and Asia, attracts not only the elites, but obviously we have a lot of illegal immigrants issues also going on in Turkey. There is a segregation issues here when it comes to campaigns. Campaigns are more political, and they have different reasons when they are doing the propaganda or campaigns.

But there was no specific segregation about the illegal immigrants and the immigrations through investments. So if you see the CBI program, if you compare the number with the illegal immigrants, investors are much less and totally different segment altogether. So the government has nothing to do with the foreign direct investments or the investment immigration programs while they were doing propaganda, but 100%, there has to be segregation and changes in regulations required to balance it out. That's the main concern I can say here for the investment immigration for Turkey.

Salman Siddiqui:  And the reason why I was mentioning that is because during the research for this episode, I came across a number of stories. What I'm trying to understand from you is under the present new government, are there any restrictions on certain investors from certain countries or that's no more the case. And, you know, everything is smooth and everyone can apply.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  What I can say generally applicants also have lack information about the recent changes. So the changes and processing the application has to be fully done to be able to get the residence permit approval or citizenship by approval. Generally in citizenship applications, we don't face this problem. So when it comes to residency permit related rejections, we cannot really generalize it. It's so much case on case basis. It can have a lot of factors involved in this, like not being able to cope up with the changes in the rules and regulations affects an application to go for a rejection, and unfortunately, the changes are not followed up by the applicants on time and properly.

Another problem which makes this residency permit a little more complex is in Turkey there is a quota for each area and each part of Turkey, and quotas for foreigners to be around. That's what I can say. So a foreign 20% quota. So in each part of Turkey, for example Antalya, if the number of foreigner residences in that area crosses that 20% quota, the Ministry of Interior comes into the picture and closes that area for the residency applications.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  The reason behind this is not case on case basis. This is a general rules and generally it's announced in prior to the knowledge of the applicants. So when it comes to renewal, the existing applicants who want to renew, they can renew. But a new application may face few restrictions which creates the problem. So I cannot really say that there is a general problem or any national wise or any specific country related issues.

Here though, there are a lot of segments and concentrations has to be done while applying. But then, you know, this is the main problem of the residency permit related rejections. Each individual has to make sure that they cope up and make sure that their application is matching with the legal requirements, including the changes. That is one thing I guess has to be followed up by the applicants. Maybe they can have an expert support or visa here to make sure that their applications goes through.

Salman Siddiqui:  I would like to clarify from you from your answer there that for example, if an investor is listening to our show, no matter where they're coming from, and they want to say, for example, buy property in Istanbul, which as we know is a very popular city, would that be possible to buy property in Istanbul? Or are you now encouraging your clients to explore other cities so that, like you mentioned, the ministries would not be affected or applied to them because then their chances would increase?

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  What I suggest to any newcomers is to do an extensive due diligence on many aspects before they consider a location and investment in both aspects. So because, as per the first steps, once you finalize the investment option and you went through all the details, it makes you eligible for the citizenship, then you can proceed further. And then you have to apply for a special residency permit category first, which is called J category. And then you get your residence permit then you can apply for citizenship. Your application goes to citizenship application. So in between the residency permits application, you may face this restriction of the locations. So you have to genuinely check before you do any specific investment into your real estate, with your lawyer or with your legal representatives to not to face during the process any complications. That's the first thing I can say.

Salman Siddiqui:  Also, we were talking about the minimum investment thresholds. So you're saying that you don't see a further increase in the minimum investment threshold under the new government? You're not hearing any of those signs right now? You're saying that $400,000 is going to be it, and you're not also hearing that maybe they might push the limit down to $250,000 like it was before, to encourage more foreign investment?

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  It doesn't make sense to consider that the minimum investment amount will come down because, as I told you, the effect here has to go parallel with the government goals, and it has to go parallel with the economic situation, current situation, and especially real estate market.

The $400,000 threshold is a very reasonable amount. At the moment, you are doing a profitable investment because in spite of the situation of the Turkish lira currency situation and other aspect, real estate investment is still one of the most profitable investments, and has one of the best return on investment option for any investor. Plus, you are getting a Turkish passport within a very short period of time, which gives you a lot of advantages as well along with your investment. And you have minimum three years of restrictions not to sell that investment which is used for the foreign citizenship. And after three years, you can just proceed with your sale if you want to. And you still hold the Turkish citizenship. So this is a good investment plan. At the same time, a good lifestyle plan for an investor if they consider Turkey in one of their plans.

Salman Siddiqui:  Speaking of the application process, and for example, when one buys real estate in Turkey, how much time does it, under the present circumstances, take to buy real estate as a foreign applicant and meet all those requirements of due diligence and all of that?

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  Starting from when you decided to do this investment in Turkey; the first step is you find your right option of real estate. Obviously, you have to do this due diligence regarding if the real estate property makes you eligible for Turkish citizenship, it usually takes five working days. With the right documents provided to a lawyer, there are relevant checks done regarding the property once it is checked by the location wise, the title of deed is clear and the amount is finalized between the buyer and the seller. The next step is transferring the amount to the Turkish bank by going this route, which is the native route of foreign exchange. Purchase document has to be received by the bank. So what happens is that it once you bring your investment amount, it can be done within one working day to two working days. Depends on the timing and the process of the bank, but they provide this documents immediately. Your money is received by the bank, and you have to be a little careful about as it's a new concept by the banks. Also, you have to make sure that foreign exchange certificate which you received by the bank, also comply with the regulations because this is a one-time transaction which you cannot change it later on.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  So it has to be careful. And if you have a mistake in the certificate, then it makes a lot of delay in your process further. So once you have that foreign exchange certificate, you have to submit it along with other additional documents to the Land Registry Office to proceed with the sale and transfer of the title of deed then an appointment is taken. It's on an appointment basis. Then you can proceed within the same day with the title. After you finish your title of the transfer in your name, then you get the eligibility conformity letter which is depending on the government authorities, it can take days to one month, which has to be followed up and closely as well. And once you receive eligibility conformity letter, then you are almost ready to apply for citizenship. So what happens is the first you apply for residency category residency permit, which doesn't take a lot of time. But again, there's a recent changes from 2023 onwards. Before the program was looking so easy because you can just provide the documents to a lawyer and you can proceed without even entering to Turkey.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  But right now the biometrics is mandatory, so the investor has to come to Turkey before this residency application is proceeded and provide this biometric. And the rest of the process can be still done with a through a lawyer. And after you receive your residency permit, which is under a certain category, then your application goes through with the citizenship application. There are seven different steps of verification and check by the relevant government authorities, and the final decision comes with a presidential decree. So this can take a lot of time, more than 3 to 4 months. By completing all that steps and receiving the final announcement letter about your citizenship can be around 3 to 4 months to five months. And then by receiving this announcement letter, you are ready to proceed with your ID card and your passport. And further on. So we can say, considering all this process, there is short way for this. It takes minimum six months. It can go all the way to eight months in a practical manner.

Salman Siddiqui:  When we ask what kind of investor usually from your clients are coming now to Turkey, are they coming mostly from India? You are seeing more applicants from there? Are you seeing more applicants from the Middle East who are interested in getting citizenship, or do you see, I don't know if anyone from the US or from other parts of Europe would be interested in what kind of profile are we seeing these days?

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  At the beginning, like in 2018, 2019 and 2020, there was more of our clients from Middle Eastern, especially Iraq. And Iran was number one the most applicants what we received. But currently we have a lot of yes, Indians because it's our hardcore market. We have a close relationship and close understanding with the market. So we have a lot of Indian applications with different purposes, which makes it very interesting. And then we have a lot of clients from Russia, especially Russia and Ukraine, due to unfortunate situation going on in their countries. But what I can say is that, interestingly, we get clients from the US as well because US and Turkey have this dual citizenship. So there are different reasons why the applicants Turkish programs or the people who would like to invest in Turkey, they have different reasons behind that. So I have a lot of Kuwaiti clients who just buying real estate and Chinese clients who doesn't follow the minimum investment amount. They do a really huge amount of investments and they receive Turkish passports. Some of them doesn't even apply for that, but still invest in real estate. So I have interesting profiles. Likewise, we have a lot of clients who unfortunately face some problems while they were applying for their citizenship. So we have a mixed profile in this manner.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  Dubai’s RBI program is a very well-known destination for Indians, but Turkey is a much unexplored destination still for many investors, especially if they consider of coming and living in Turkey. So this is totally a different experience when it comes to measurements an investor would like to make, they choose the destination that they are comfortable with, or they know the in and out about that destination.

So what happens is Dubai is known, but right now there are a lot of similarities, and there is a lot of differences between Dubai and Turkey as well. So they are very open on foreign investors. Dubai offers golden visa, but that Golden Visa doesn't provide a long term benefit to an investor. So that way Turkish citizenship as you receive a citizenship, there is no difference anymore. You are a citizen of the country, so that it definitely complies with the investor's long term plans and allowing dual citizenship. That's why US clients comes into the picture as they are allowed to have dual citizenship. They have their general retirement plans or they are regular visitors because Turkey is a tourism hub as well. So many people get to know Turkey by visiting it and later on considering investment opportunities in the country with the facilities, with the geographical location, because you have an amazing advantage in the location, the flights, the connections also makes it, especially Istanbul, a right hub because it it's kind of literally in the middle of the world.

Salman Siddiqui:  So real estate is not the only option to take part in the program, isn't it? There are other options also there like business investment. Yeah. So if you could just briefly just mention what are the other options. And in your experience which one is the most popular? I'm guessing it's of course the real estate one.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  We have seven routes which make a foreigner applicant eligible to apply for Turkish citizenship by investment. The most famous one is the real estate. Because, as I told you, it's an actual investment, not just for the Turkish citizenship, but it makes it more interesting. As you are purchase real estate in Turkey, you can have a lot of different ways of earning money out of it, like rental incomes, return of investment is high, capitalization is very high, and it's easier to proceed. It's more known when it comes to process, though many changes are happening with this real estate route. Still, it is the most demanded and the most preferred application. But we have a route via bank deposit of $500,000 for three years is another route which applicants can consider, and there are a lot of applicants from Russia especially because it's easier comparing the real estate. Because your money is safe, your money is in the bank, and you can even have a special deal regarding the interest part. The investment amount doesn't come lesser than $500,000. Also, because you don't have to follow the real estate market, because in real estate there is a lot of factors like the location matters, the country situation matters, but the money in a bank account is safer for many of our clients because after three years, they can just utilize that money again and they receive the immediate Turkish passport. This is another option, whichI can say is really on demand.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  And there are other various options like investing in a government bond equal to $500,000 minimum investment amount, along with again, three years restrictions, and then venture capital investment is possible again with $500,000. There's another interesting route which creating 50 jobs through your investment, which is also interesting for the investors who also expand their business in Turkey. So there are people who prefer these routes, like five of our clients who opened their manufacturing unit in Turkey. And they get this eligibility by creating 50 jobs and this gets approved and they proceed with their Turkish citizenship. So this way they also first come see the environment, settle their business, expand their business, and later on proceed with the Turkish citizenship once they get that 50 jobs already created. But it requires a lot of maintenance. So that also has to be considered when you are applying because it's like the letter eligibility conformity letter has to be received from the Ministry of Labor. It takes around six months longer. That is why the maintenance is very important during the application, because you have to receive the conformance letter. There is another new option; investing in a private pension system of Turkey with minimum $500,000 for three years.

Salman Siddiqui:  We are coming close to the end of our episode now. But before I let you go, I also want to hear from you about the impact of the recent earthquake that happened in Turkey, which was very unfortunate news. I want to understand from your perspective, did you see less clients coming your way after that, or were there more questions to you about where they should invest in the country they don't want to put their money in, maybe in earthquake prone area. What did you hear and how did you handle all of these queries? And of course, hope you weren't there when this happened.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  I was not therem but I have to start with how unfortunate and how sad of a situation it was. It happened on 6th February 2023, in the southeast of Turkey, which impacted like ten cities. It was a huge deal and it directly impacted 30 million people. So it was a devastating situation for us as well as for the investors.

Obviously, I cannot even compare the sadness for the human loss, but when we consider about the metrics, there was obviously like any natural disaster in any country, it temporarily shakes the investors’ confidence and they question a lot because it creates uncertainty for them. Turkey is a known earthquake zone country. It's a known fact about Turkey. It's the earthquakes are on a regular basis happening in Turkey. And the government is trying its best to prevent the losses during the earthquakes as much as they can. It has a lot of multifaceted effects. I can say this earthquake, emotionally and psychologically aside, yes, there was a lot of questions. There was a lot of on hold applications by the investors. They would like to because 2023 was started with an earthquake and then immediately we had the elections.

A lot of shifting happened also in the country itself by their own citizens, not only foreigners or, you know, investors are affected. So these changes also affected the whole system in Turkey. So again, it makes investors think over and over again before they decide. So generally I’d say that for 3 or 4 months there were a lot of questions coming. Also it can be understood that there was a lot of decreases in the investments, but at the moment everything is back to normal.

Salman Siddiqui:  Thank you so much for taking out the time to be part of our show and explaining all those points to our listeners who are very keen to know about all of these topics. I'm really am grateful to you to have taken out the time for us.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  Thank you very much. It was my pleasure and it was really nice being here. I hope I tried my best and I hope it was useful for all the potential investors. I always suggest to everybody to make for sure a due diligence, even in advance, to make sure that you have a smooth process in Turkey and enjoy the advantages of it further.

Salman Siddiqui:  Thank you. And in the end, want to shout out to our listeners that please stay tuned. We'll be bringing you more guests from around the world to talk about investment immigration. So thank you.

Halime Taştan Daşbilek:  Thank you very much.

Salman Siddiqui:  You've been listening to the Investment Immigration podcast by you Uglobal.com. Join us again soon for more in-depth conversations exploring investment immigration opportunities from around the world.

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